Beyond the Slipstream
Your weekly breakaway for fun conversations on pro cycling and so much more.
Beyond the Slipstream
Ode To Kwaremont S2E22
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It’s the start of pro cycling’s Holy Week and we’re diving deep on the pod his week, as we dissect the second Monument race of the year, the Women’s and Men’s Ronde Van Vlaanderen. We’ll also be chopping up the Women’s and Men’s Dwaars door Vlaanderen Spring classics, and the Men’s Gran Premio Miguel Indurain. And as always, we’ll update our Fantasy contest standings and finish with a ride in the Broom Wagon.
AVERAGE ROB and Red Bull announce REMCO to Flanders
POG and PFP on a bike together
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Thanks for listening... Allez!
It's your weekly breakaway for fun conversations on pro cycling. Come join us for another ride Beyond the Slipstream. I'm Matt Harper, and together with my brother Justin, we'll do deep-ish dives on professional bike races, teams, riders, and all sorts of cycling-related stories. So jump in the saddle and tighten up those shoes. The road awaits. Aloy. Hello and welcome to Beyond the Slipstream. I'm Matt, and this is my brother Justin. And today on the show, we're talking history, as in the potential to make even more history for the winners of both the men's and women's Ronde von Vlanderen, aka The Tours of Flanders, which concluded yesterday on the cobbles around Oudenard. There weren't any huge surprises when it came to the winners of each, given that the favorites on both sides took the top step of the podia at the end. But in each case, a tantalizing opportunity to make history has presented itself. On the men's side, a superstar has joined a handful of other greats with three wins at Deronda. Can he make it four next year to become the rider with the most ever? But even more importantly, he's now won the first two monuments of the season. He'll have his work cut out for him next week in Roubaix, as the parkour is not heavy on climbing where he usually gets his advantage. But he got second there last year on debut. And if he can win, well, let's just say that the final two monuments of the season are considerably easier for him at least. He's the reigning champion in both. No rider in history has ever won all five monuments in the same season. On the women's side, the winner has added a third monument to her palmares, and it's the second of the five for her. This year we'll see Lombardia finally added to the women's tour, and she'll be the hot favorite. So by year's end, she could have three of the five, and she'll no doubt want to chase the career monument five pack in the coming seasons. It's all very historic, very exciting, and so much fun to watch. We'll consider the history and the prospects for more history this week on the show. And as always, we'll finish out with a Fantasy League update and more grinding cobblestone-laden adventures in the broomwagon. Alex. Matt here with Justin. It is Rondevan Vlonderin time. Uh what a weekend of racing. Man, that's that is some race, the Rondevan Vlanderin, not only for what's going on on the race course, but also what's going on all around it. The cycling mad nation of Belgium uh is just on full display at the Ronda, and I love it. So um we're gonna kick it off with the men's race, uh, I think because the tantalizing possibility of race winner Tade Pagacar, no surprise there. Uh uh the prospect of him taking all five monuments in the same in the same season has uh has just ratcheted up a notch. He is 40% of the way there. Uh and if he can get over the big hurdle, it's in the middle. The last two will be seemingly smooth sailing. Your thoughts. Uh Kenny.
SPEAKER_00I mean, personally, I think he can do it. I mean, we have you at least you and I have long considered Stratabianchi to to be the sixth monument. So in reality, he is halfway there right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, okay. I like that. I like that outlook. Well, well, let's let's let's actually pause and stick with our outline that we have taken pains to do. So let's get into the race itself first, how he won and and what played out. What what stood out to you in terms of of how things played out this year?
SPEAKER_00Um, I I feel like it was it was the exactly what we expected. Um, you know, at the toughest moments is is where he did it. I think the biggest takeaway for me, uh at least with Pagatar, is I I don't believe that Pagatar was at 100% yesterday, which is also a scary notion considering the fact that if he wasn't at 100% and he still won, like what does that really mean? Because even not at 100%, you know, he he is still able to uh you know bury the course. Um you know the the the cobble climbs obviously end up being the the the part where you get the separation and you know out of the five riders that went, you know, be Pettersson, uh Remco, Pog, Vanderpool, and Van Art, I think you couldn't have asked for a better, you know, five, you know, top five competitors in the race. But the big thing with Pog with Pogachar is that even when he's not seemingly at 100%, he's still better than everybody else.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, he's simply he's simply a level above all of those guys when it comes to climbing. There's no question about it. He is a better climber than all of those guys. You know, I uh we we talked before the show about the fact that somewhere during the pre-show, somebody said that Jonas Vingegaard was coming to this race. And I was like, because I I wrote in my notes, oh my god, are you for real? This wait, this is crazy. This changes everything right now. Um, and what you just said, uh as it turned out, he was not in the race. Uh, I don't know where they got that information. I kind of three-quarters of the way through thought to myself, wait a second, I literally haven't heard Jonas Venga Gard's name mentioned one time. There's no way he's in this race. That must have been a mistake. But for for a moment there, I thought that he was in the race. And now looking back, I wonder to myself, like, he seems like possibly the only guy that could challenge Pogachar on a parkour like this. I mean, he's he can climb. He he's a better I I think Jonas Bingegaard is a better climber than Matthew Vanderpol and of Remko Evan Evanapol for sure. Right?
SPEAKER_00I think that I think what would be tough for him would be the cobbles. Um, I think, you know, if you look at Remco, those cobbles beat the shit out of Remco. I mean, they really, really do. And Vanderpol is able to absorb it a lot better just with his physicality. Um, Pagacar seems to lie somewhere in the in between the middle of those two guys, but again, it's hard to compare Pagacar to anybody else because he's such a unique uh talent. I mean, he's he's simultaneously becoming the best classics writer, the best one day rider, and the best uh grand tour writer at the same exact time, which is just you know nuts in and of itself. So if you ask me straight up, do I think that uh Jonas could challenge him? Yes, but I think the cobbles become the factor. What uh what experience does Jonas have with that type of racing is the biggest thing? Because if they beat him up the the way that they, you know, beat up uh Remco, then then I don't know that he necessarily can because there is a level of physicality that comes within these cobbled classics that is completely different than just you know climbing in the mountains and the Pyrenees or the or or the Alps.
SPEAKER_01I think Jonas is a hard Danish man who knows how to go out there in whatever the situation is and get the the job done for family and for country. And I don't think Jonas Vingegaard would just suddenly fall apart on the cobblestones at all. I think I think that dude is is a a very smart studious bike racer. Um his his physique is similar to Tade Pogachar's.
SPEAKER_00I mean with preparation, I agree. But I just if if he just showed up and was like, I'm just gonna ride this race, I I don't know. I just I don't know if like I I don't know if he is again I just I don't know because we don't see it. So it's like I can't sit here, I can't sit here and say that I don't I mean do I think he's capable? Absolutely, I think he's capable, but do I think that if you ask me whether or not I think he'd be the only person that could compete with him, it's it's tough for me to say because I have no I have no history to to to kind of base my my guess on. Do I think his physical ability says that he can? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Well, I would I would sure like to see it. Um because I don't think Vanderpoel will ever beat him again. Um and I think I think Vanderpoel's only beaten him there once, right? Because like Tade didn't go one year or whatever, but I don't think Vanderpoel w will ever beat him. If you listen to to Vanderpoel's pre-race interview, uh he was already like you could already tell that that guy did not believe that he could win. You could you could tell it in the pre-race interview. Um because they're trying to keep it light and they're asking him about uh Remco and everything, and he was just like, Yeah, yeah, that's all well and good and wow Van Art, blah, blah, blah. But like, we you know, we got Tade, like with the there's that. So like what's the point of this interview basically? Um then you got Remco whose whose climbing has been like quite questionable. Um, and I mean that's a big question just overall. Like, I mean, can when can Remco win a stage race again? You know, we saw we saw a very disappointing performance two weeks ago or a week ago, or whenever it was at uh at uh it was an Andaluzia or or um whatever the Spanish stage race was a week ago. Got to learn it, yeah. Um so so like who who else? I mean, Wild, I don't know why's not gonna do it again. Mads Petterson isn't gonna do it again. Those guys were miles back, but like Jonas, he's never been tested with the right preparation. I think that that is you that is our best hope for a competitive Flanders for however long Tade Pagacar continues to ride it. I so I you know either that or Paul Say Shots. Yeah, the cobblestones will beat that skinny little boy up for sure.
SPEAKER_00Now, if you ask me who Remco or who Pagacar was worried about yesterday, it was not Vanderpool, it was Remco. Um he wasn't looking behind he wasn't looking behind him and Vanderpool to see if Wild Van Art was there. He was looking for Remco. All right. So Remco, in my opinion, has the better chance of beating him in a race like this because it's not a stage race, because it's a a one-day race, because it's in Belgium. Okay. So there's a number of factors that that I think with the correct preparation that Remco is much more of a challenger in this than especially, especially as you know, now again, if Pagatra wasn't 100% and Remco still couldn't hang with him, it I I don't know what that says, but I also know that this is the first time that Remco's done it. And I think that, you know, with a little more experience and time and the right move, I think Remco would have been there with those guys. I think that it it is a very minor separation that puts him into third place versus maybe second place or even first yesterday because of just I you know race IQ in this particular race. I I think Pagajar knows exactly what where and when he needs to make the move to garner the separation that he needs to be able to take it to the win. That being said, I think Remco is much more of a threat in this type of race than he would be to a Tour de France or a Giro d'Italia or anything like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean let's let's let's face it, like Remco Evan is not a stranger to winning one-day races. This man has won monuments, this man has won the world championships, uh, this man has won the Olympic road race. He can go out there and win a one-day stage race. It's completely within the realm of possibilities. Right. And let's also not forget that Tade Pagacchar is a couple years older than him. And at some point, at some point, you know, who who knows what the what the bell curve of both of these guys' career is, but it's quite possible that Remco at some point could be higher on a bell curve than Tade Pagacar is, and if they happen to meet uh at at you know Flanders one year in the next couple of years, and that is the situation, and and Jonas isn't there, um that you know Rem Remco could conceivably do it as well. So I I like where your head's at with that.
SPEAKER_00Um plus it's it's like once you see, you know, we were watching, you know, I sent you some of those Instagram reels. When you see the level of, I mean, like how you could not feel like a golden god being a Belgian rider riding in the Belgianist of Belgian races. Oh, yeah. Like those To be Remko, to be Wild Van Art, like Oh my god, like I just like it the the the feeling that you get just from watching a clip of all those people chanting your name makes you believe that you know I'm like, damn, if I was Belgian, I think I could win.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's also a mentality in Remco Evanapole that's like kind of crazed, like like like you could see him just having gotten third place on debut and having the same conversation in his head that we just had about his capabilities. You could just see him maniacally going after that until he gets it, you know, because he's Remco. Like his ego won't allow him to not win that race.
SPEAKER_00So in you know, let's think about it like this. Okay, so first off, if Pagacar and Vanderpol aren't there, Remco wins that race and handily. Okay. He he puts Van Art and Peterson to the sword and drops them, and he is your winner at Torah Flanders. If it if it isn't for two, you know, generational talents that, you know, so first off, you know, Chapo to him. All right, he did an excellent job yesterday. And I think the real story is that with you know not any experience under the belt, he comes out and he's in he podiums this race, all right. And it's one of the hardest races that you know is on the calendar. So, you know, you cannot take that away from him, but he absolutely would have won that race if it weren't for the two generational talents that happen to be in front of him. All right. So the other side of that, you know, coin is what if Red Bull, you know, decides like, wait a minute, okay, let's play to our strings. We got Florian Lipowitz, he's gonna take care of our of our stage races, and let's let's uh let's turn this guy into the into a classics machine. And if he put his focus there as opposed to trying to be this the the the other Pagachar, which is what it seems like he wants to be, because he unlike Jonas, Jonas is just a grand tour rider, he rides the stage races, he's not doing these one-day races.
SPEAKER_01And it's uncertain that he that he could ever really become a dominant stage racer. It seemed like he was more dominant earlier in his career, and that he's he he he is naturally transitioning.
SPEAKER_00But he could be a very dominant one-day racer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, it plays into his strengths. So, you know, and for Red Bull, I mean, think about the fact that it's like you could have Lippaway, you you could you could all of a sudden take this super team and kind of just lightly change its focus, and all of a sudden you have uh you're winning races all over the place. You're winning races like UAE. Uh-huh. So, you know, it's it's an interesting uh it's an interesting thought to say, you know, is he better served trying to be this uh superstar stage racer slash classics racer, or does he just play to his strength and go to the classics and try to be in comp you know in competition and try to go away with some of those big races? Because in the Pergatch era, he's not winning a Tour de France. In the Jonas Fingigo era, he's not winning against these guys against Reuven.
SPEAKER_01So let's consider let's consider that what what things are are still before him that he does not have on his Palmares that looking back on his career uh would be big for him. What in in your opinion, what's bigger? What's bigger than being the first Belgian in God knows how long, Belgian man in God knows how long to win the Rondevan Volonderin? How long has it been? It would be absolutely huge. I mean, first of all, for him to win it once again type situation. Right for him to win it once would would be huge just for his Paul Mars, so that he can retire saying, Yes, of course I won my home race, the biggest thing in Belgium. Number two, to bring it back to no doubt it's the biggest race in Belgium. Right. Number two, to bring it back to Belgium. You know what I'm saying? He's got the world championship stuff, he's got the Olympic stuff, you know what I mean? He's he's won other monuments. I mean, yeah, he could conceivably put his mind to the career five monument thing. Uh, you know, he's he's only got one, but it's within that, that is also within the realm of possibility. But I think having come so close. Having come so close um this time on his debut, um he'd be insane not to race this race every single time, at least for the next five seasons. I mean, um, look at who, look at who came be tell me of of the of the top 15 people that came behind him, who's gonna beat him ever in this race? Wild Van Art, Mads Peterson, Jasper Stoyven, Florian Vermirsch, Mati Mahorek, Christian Laporte, Gianni Vermirsch, Tim Van Dyke, none of these guys, maybe Tim Van Dyke. He's he's super young and could have a transformation, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like, for the next five years, this man, this man should be gunning for this race.
SPEAKER_00But in reality, if we're gonna talk about, you know, riders that could win all five, he could though, you know, because he could time trial MSR. Okay, he could, he could get out front enough in MSR. He's a good enough descender, he's a good, he, he's he's you know, his arrow nature will would suit him very well. So he look, it it's an entirely, it's a it's a possibility, but it's possible. At this point, I feel like every racer in the Pro Peloton right now needs to, especially if you're in, if you're in your prime, you need to start giving yourself realistic expectations of what you can win in your career. All right, because look, you at this point, if you if Pog's on the start list, there's a solid chance that Pog's winning that race, all right, and that you're not. So you need to start to kind of think like, what can we do to gain separation from the situation as best as possible? And you need to start playing to your strengths and start trying to to win races that make sense to win races for your career.
SPEAKER_01And it's not as if there are not still prizes to be had in grand tours for Remco Evanopol. Remco can continue to just rack up career wins. I mean, Remco is arguably the favorite in any TT that he's in for the next couple of years. You know what I'm saying? When you go to a grand tour, you're gonna get to crack off one, maybe two, maybe even three of them, depending on how the grand tour is set up. So that's like, and then you throw in individual stages, especially if he is not fixated on keeping up a GC, this guy could rack up many, many wins.
SPEAKER_00So therein lies the key, the Vanderpole of it, okay? Like pull that expectation off of his shoulders to where now imagine this. Imagine if you're Florian Limpowitz and you've got a Remco Evanopol to bury the to bury you himself going into a hard climb.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, we already know that Florian can do it without Remco and get third place in the Tour de France. All right, we already know that that is a possibility. All right, imagine if Florian has Remco in the front as a super domestique, there's a there is a tantalizing thought of something that could beat Pagacar. Because this is the thing that we've said is without something otherworldly, you're not gonna beat Pagachar. All right. So you know, herein lies that, you know, this is what I'm saying is that, you know, if you are a pro racing, you know, team right now in cycling, and you're not thinking outside the box when it comes to Pagachar, you've already lost. Period, full stop.
SPEAKER_01Well, turning our attention to someone who has lost many, many times, uh Wout Van Forth. Wow Van Forth. On the heels of his incredible dual performance of Wout Van Second, uh, Wilk it's a the it's the return of WoW Van Forth at this race. Um, what a what a week for Wout Van Art. And your heart just breaks for this man. And yet somehow I I have to keep telling myself so that I don't cry myself to sleep every night that like he's not really stressed. About it. He loves his family and he he he loves what he's accomplished in his career and he's just out there having fun.
SPEAKER_00And look, you know what? Again, this is one of those situations where we have to temper our expectations against the fact that he's riding against generational talents. All right. He is a he is a he is an S-tier racer that is racing against double S tier ra riders. Okay. Like you know, him and Remco, all of a sudden that's a you know that's a more tantalizing, you know, duo than him and man and Vanderpol. Like Vanderpool's so far in front of him at this point, it's it's not even funny. You know what I mean? They're just completely on different pages. So, you know. Did he have a great week? Yes. Is it heartbreaking to watch him on the front of these races for as long as he was and then get pipped in the last 200 meters by uh by Ghana?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, to Dwarzdor Vlonderen you're referring to on Wednesday of the of the week. And I mean, bro while it was out there for just dozens and dozens of kilometers only to be caught by an absolute flying people Ghana with a hundred meters left to go. I mean, just heartbreaking.
SPEAKER_00Under 200. And and of course, like that dude's got a giant engine. Once that thing is up and running the way that it was, there's just no chance that he that he's not gonna catch Wout. You know, Wout's completely gassed in that last little bit. And there's a good and and and in when we talk about the you know, the the comparison between him and Van uh Vanderpool, there's a perfect example because Vanderpol was in that exact same position, not a week before that. And what what did what did Vanderpol do? He found another gear and dug in and got the win, and wow, wasn't able to do that. So, you know, that's not a like I don't want to I don't want to take away because he's been on great form, he's been riding, he's been animating, he's been very entertaining. It's just it's disappointing that it hasn't translated into a win for him. That's that's the sad part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, let's let's hope he's not too bothered by it. Uh, it sure does make those races exciting. And um, yeah, I think I was mixing up Dwarzdoor and the one from the week before. That was the one where he was out in front for so long. Dwarzdoor, he he he dropped he dropped Nikles Larson like very close to the finish, and then it was like, can he hang on? And the Peloton was five seconds behind him.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and it just yo it just yo-yo'd like that for like 14 or 15k, where it was like, you know, 15 seconds, seven seconds, fifteen seconds, seven seconds, eight seconds, nine seconds, five seconds. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So disappointing, but well, we love you. Let's finish up the conversation uh with this query. Can Tade win all five monuments this season? Yes or no? Yes.
SPEAKER_00How does he win Perry Rubet? The same way he almost won it last year, but with an entire year of prep and now knowing exactly what he needs to do. And I think it's just like any I think it's like anything else. He needs to make his separation in a place where it makes sense. Um, you know, somewhere on a on on some cobbled sector in Perry Rubet, he's gotta gain separation from from the group enough that, you know, he's able to get out and and and solo. Because if he can like if his form is on and you know he now knows that he can beat Vanderpole, okay, in a in a in a not that climby race. All right. MSR approved it all. All right. Yeah. 100%. He has the ability. It can be done. So it's a matter of and at this point I think it's will, you know, more than anything, but I think that he is like a a Jordan-esque type where he can just wield himself to victory if he wants it. And I think that he really, really wants it because this is something that's never been done. Look, the never been done's are very tantalizing to Pagatra because that's the only way that he's going to get separation from Merck's as far as you know being the greatest ever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. He he he has uh two distinct advantages that I see going into this race. Number one is I don't think Vanderpool is on the form that he was on last year. I cite as evidence him almost losing the uh whatever it was, was it E3 where he out foxed them, where they almost where they where where the chase was literally on his heels. And you know, credit to him. He won the race. He did have an extra gear that he knew about that he that he had kept in hiding, and he outfoxed him. He made it look like he was like he was done, and they relaxed for a second. Um, was it was it a direct cause and effect there? Maybe, maybe not. But anyways, he got that done. Um, but as I said, he he in his pre-race interview for this for Tor Flanders, you could tell that he didn't think he had it. So if that's his form, barely, barely winning E3, not like getting on a solo book breakaway like he's done in the past, um, not winning uh not winning Flanders, you know, and finishing almost a minute behind um Pogachar. Uh and then the other, so so you got that is Vanderpol's form, and then the other thing is Pog has Florian Vermirsch. Florian Vermirsch is the reigning gravel world champion, and that guy has been crushing it all year long. Who who does Vanderpol have that's as good as Florian Vermirsch across that kind of terrain?
SPEAKER_00The other thing is that we know that the two of them have been in Roubaix training. All right. We know it, we've seen it, it is, it is, it is logged all over social media. So we know right now, without a doubt, this one is more important to him than any of the other ones. So he has been putting in the prep. And my guess is, because these guys are ultra planners, is that they know exactly where they're gonna do it. They already know, they've already got a plan, and it's all about just executing the plan. The only thing that I think holds Pagacar back in the in this week is again, I don't believe that he was on 100% yesterday. And again, I uh you know, obviously his not 100% is still better than most everybody else's 100%.
SPEAKER_01But I've never seen that.
SPEAKER_00I've never seen Pagachar in a post post-race interview with like the supreme bags under his eyes. I mean, dude, he had like he had Czech luggage under his eyes yesterday in that post-race interview. And you know, that gives me a little hesitation towards whether or not he'll win Perry Rubet. If he is perfectly fine and it just was, you know, the camera and the time, and he was tired, and it was a long day. Okay. But if he doesn't come in with with you know a complete fire in the belly, like he can't win that race. But do I think it's possible? Yes. And if he wins this week, the other two are a foregone conclusion. He will win those ones.
SPEAKER_01Like this is this is arguably the biggest race of his of his career coming up. Yes. In in six days' time. Let me let me let me finish this out with two quick other uh sort of factors that that could play into it. Number one, Vanderpoel has already won Roubaix twice, three times. So there he lacks the fire that a guy who's never won this race would have. Um key. Um number two, let's say we get a carbon copy of last year, except Pog doesn't crash. Um I feel like in the form that they're in right now, that Pog would beat him in the sprint. But as we know, Matthew Vanderpoel is crash proof. Pog is injury proof, but Vanderpol is crash proof. So, so Pog is for in a world championship. Yeah, that's true. That barely even that that that one doesn't even count, man. It was wet out.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, um it was wet as shit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um so let's keep that in mind. All right, well, it's gonna be an amazing weekend next weekend. I can't wait. We're gonna put a cap in it right there, and when we come back, uh we're basically having the same exact conversation on the women's side with a few small differences. Stay with us. Please check out our other show, Inglorious Brothers, a pop culture show with Cult Classics Swagger. Search and subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube, or click the link in the show notes. All right, welcome back. Uh, we're jumping headlong into the women's side of the race. Now, I thought for sure the women's would end up being uh better than the men's, as has often been the case in monuments over the past, let's say, 18 months or so. Um not so. I thought they were kind of even um in turn, I I think, in my opinion, um, in terms of like the excitement factor.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, in reality, they were they were identical races. All right. Pagar and Volering both attacked in the exact same spot in both races with almost the exact same amount of of time left.
SPEAKER_01So uncanny.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they both attacked on on the Odaquarma and you know, left everybody by themselves. So, you know, we had two solo victories. Um, but I will say this Pagatra went with the black trunks, Demi went with the white, Demi's white European kit with the white bike. That thing was just mmm mm-mm. Agreed good. God damn, did it look good.
SPEAKER_01Agreed. And it made for it made for a great uh uh finish line celebration, but I'll leave that to you because I know you want to mention it. Um Pog still does look like an assassin with the black shorts on, but um Yeah, he's been doing the white shorts in the white white on white for like weeks. I know it was an it was an interesting change. I I I I have to imagine he'll be in the black shorts next week. What do you think? Well, I don't know. Maybe who knows?
SPEAKER_00Probably I'm thinking because of the dirt is is the reason why.
SPEAKER_01But if it's dry, if it's dry, you still might go with the all-white. Um we'll see. Demi is quietly following in Pog's footsteps, I feel. All right. She has won, she has won a handful of grand tours, and she has won a handful of one-day races. Um she she she is she's now won her first, no, her second monument. And as I said in the intro, um, they're adding Lombardia to the women. So the women now have five parentheses six uh monuments, as the men do. She has won, she she she has now won two of the five, uh, and the parent the one in parentheses. So she's got she's halfway there.
SPEAKER_00Um and having her next challenge would be Roubaix as well. I think she could win the other two, no problem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I I I absolutely agree. Well, she's won LBL already. That's that's one of the that's the one that she's won. She would need to she would need to win MSR and she would need to win That will be the tough one. But here's the thing MSR and and and Strade are somewhat similar, somewhat analogous in terms of, you know, obviously one's got got gravel and the other doesn't. Um and MSR is is is much, much longer. I don't think I don't think a long race is is is ever an issue for her. Gravel is certainly not an issue. And there's there's not the unassailable climb that she can use in in um stratabianke to win there, nor is there that climb in, you know, she's got the she's got the pog she'll have the pog problem at MSR. But as she's demonstrated, she can she can win. She finds ways to win on a variety of different, you know, different courses and parkours and stuff like that. So I have to believe that she this must be part of the package for her now. The you know, the the what you know, the palmares package for her is getting all five monuments. She could do it a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00I think she absolutely has the ability to do it. It's just yeah, and I will say one of the things that I've that I that I've taken away from from this year versus last year with Demi is she seems to be mentally just in a way better place, dude. Like so much better her mental just seems to be so much better this year than it was last year, and I think it I think it is translating into her you know having an easier time winning some of these harder races. And you know, look, man, is as far as I'm concerned, dude, she should be paying attention to how Pagatra is winning these races. Because I don't think it's a coincidence that she attacked in the exact same spot that he attacked. I don't think it is coincidental at all. I think she did, she knew exactly what she needed to do, where she needed to do it, and that nobody else in in that giant group. By the way, now I will say this Roysa and Kim Lakourt Pinard going down plays into her win yesterday, 100%. Roysa would have been with her if she's healthy.
SPEAKER_01Kim Lacourt, I'm not not so sure about her if she's had a less than seller season, but Roysa for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So Roysa already demonstrated her for him earlier this week in Duar's door, which we haven't mentioned yet.
SPEAKER_00Speaking of the they so her and and Kim Lacourt go down um at like 47k. So after the the you know the separation of the big group, but they went down somewhere in that in that middle uh after the first climb up the the the Quaremont. So I it's like I that's the only question mark I have that I'm gonna put on her for yesterday is is that Roysa would have would have made it a much more interesting race. Um but you know it it's it's you know it is it's within her reach to be able to actually get all five. But again, you know, she has people in this Peloton that can really, really put her, you know, to the screws. And it's it's a matter of her, you know, maintaining the level that she's at. But I think if she maintains the level she's at, there's not very many people that can that can hang with her. Because even PFP couldn't hang with her yesterday. All right. PFP and Puck Peters are two very good racers, and they couldn't hang with her yesterday. So, you know, but I think the only one in right now, at least as we've seen, I think the only one that could really, really compete with her in this situation would have been Roysa in and but she wasn't there, so yeah, that was that was very disappointing.
SPEAKER_01Um notwithstanding, she is on course to have to have the season of her of her very good career. She's had some damn good seasons, but if you look at her season right now, she she won two stages plus the GC and the points at uh Valenciana. That's how she started her season. Two two stages out of three, mind you. Um she then wins Omloop. Um she comes 20th in Strata Bianchi, obviously, that's the big question mark that we've been talking about. And then she gets second in Dwar's door behind Roysa and first, and now she wins the the the the Tour of Flanders. I mean, it doesn't really get much better than that. Maybe if she had won Dwar's door, but like kind of who cares. She can she can go out and win Dwar's door if she wants to.
SPEAKER_00Um Do you think she cares more about Dwar's door or Flanders? Because now she's got the monument.
SPEAKER_01So she knows she knows where to peak. She just looks unassailable. And the thing about her is can you recall a single moment this this uh entire season when Demi Vollering had a stressed look on her face? I can't. I can't. Can you can you remember Demi Vollering's shoulders rocking back and forth at any point during the season? Like, no, she she is an absolute machine. That's why she I say she's quietly kind of shaping herself after Tade Pagacar, because um this woman is she she's incredible right now.
SPEAKER_00So what's the what does the rest of her year look like? Like what does she still have on top?
SPEAKER_01She's not doing Roubaix this year. I mean, obviously that's that's something that they're gonna plan from way out if if and when she decides to do that. Um But uh she got Amstel Gold, Flesh will own LBL uh for the rest of the classics. I believe she has won, she's definitely won flesh, she's definitely won Amstel Gold, and she's won LBL. So she's three races that she has already won. So she could keep piling on the wins, especially considering her form right now. I I don't know who's gonna beat her at Amstel Gold, Puck. Maybe.
SPEAKER_00Um we we don't know what we don't know what the result of the wreck yesterday with Roysa and Kim Lakourt Pinar was. So I I looked for it all last night and they just they have not put enough in any updates in in that wreck like if you go back, so if you if if you're interested and you go back and watch it, there's a wreck around 47k that involved the two of them and a few other riders, and somebody in that Kim LeCorp Pinar is on the ground, like you know, not prone, but like on her side, um, not really moving. And then um the like I don't even know how to describe how uh Roysa Roysa is like off to the side, looks less, but there was another rider that was like laying on her back. One of the two of them is like screaming, like wailing. And so somebody got hurt in that wreck, or or they were in pain because of the situation with the bikes. I don't know what it is. I'll be very interested to see what the result of that wreck is once it is announced.
SPEAKER_01So well, the result the result for Marlon Roysa is uh that she is out with a fractured vertebra, and the next uh race that she has on her program um is tour to Swiss women on June 17th. So I mean that's no Ardennes for Marlon Roysa. I don't know if I don't know if she was planning on that, but um that's certainly a big shame. Uh yeah, I don't it was tough to watch that crash. It was like two weeks in a row or two two monuments in a row that the women have a horrible, hard-to-watch crash. It's such a shame, too, because that one was just a touch of wheels, but they were going really, really fast in the Peloton and a whole bunch of people it happened like right in the middle of the pack and just took out a bunch of people. Um yeah, real shame. Real shame for uh my fantasy team, as we'll get into, I'm sure, no doubt.
SPEAKER_00Um such a shame. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure we'll get into we'll get into it.
SPEAKER_01Uh so um but yeah, I mean, I don't see many challengers for Demi in in those those upcoming one-day races, all of which she's won before. Uh, and then after that, it's off to Giro, Tour de Suisse, Tour de France. Sky's the limit for this season. I can't even imagine how hungry she is for that Tour de France, second Tour de France win.
SPEAKER_00Um did you did you see her two she had two unique celebrations at the end of the race. Did you see them both?
SPEAKER_01Uh I believe, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So she she did her her zen thing when she crossed the finish line, which I just absolutely love, where she like comes together with that like leg kind of cocked out, like in like almost like she's standing on one leg with her with her foot like on her knee, but she's actually just got her her foot on the on the pedal that way. So she did that one, and then she did the bike raise.
SPEAKER_01The bike race?
SPEAKER_00The bike raise.
SPEAKER_01Oh, no, the bike raise, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, she's she's she's challenging Lorena Vebas for best finish line celebrations, uh for sure.
SPEAKER_00This is true. This is true. Um must be some but must be something about that European champions jersey. Because all of a sudden you're wearing that thing and you're putting up really, really fun uh finish line celebrations.
SPEAKER_01Um be going against Vebus, Shabay, Newodoma, Swink, well not against Shabay, but um Newodoma, Swinkles, uh Kat Ferguson, Neem Fisher Black, Bradevald, Naomi Rug, all of them in um in Amstel. And I would say that one could be tricky for her to win. Because as often happens there, it comes down to a sprint. And while I think her sprinting is certainly solid this year, um having the likes of possibly having the likes of Lorena Viebus, Kat Ferguson, uh Naomi Roog in there, she ain't beating any of those three in a sprint.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But she's already won it before, and not really, I would think, like a Amongst her biggest goals is a second AMSL gold win. You know what I mean? Correct. Now she is trying to rack up numbers. I believe her win was, what did they say? Was a 60th, 70th of her career? I did not catch it. I don't have it in my notes. Um so there's always the accumulation of wins and points and all that stuff. Of course, winners like to win.
SPEAKER_00So do you have any do you have anything else on that? I do want before we get to the broomwagon, I do want to I do want to throw one thing out.
SPEAKER_01Please do. I I I I I think I have a couple of random things on both of the racing.
SPEAKER_00Um so I do want to shout out uh the old man, Ian Itsigide, for winning the Miguel Indorane uh one day race earlier this week. The old man showed up all the young Bucks and was able to take uh the first win in a long time for him. I didn't look up how long it had been, but um, it was really neat to see him win. I believe this is his last season. I think he's retiring at the end of the season. Um so you know, I just wanted to shout him out because, you know, what a what a a great little win for him. And you know, what a a sweet and wonderful man he is. Yes, and unfortunately his win came at the expense of Quinn Simmons. Yeah, well, Quinn's got a lot more time to rack up wins, and for whatever reason, he just he was on form that day, man.
SPEAKER_01He really put Quinn to the sword. I would say like after 30 seconds after he he attacked, like they did a head-on shot, and Quinn was just like miles back there. You could barely see him at all. So um really crazy descent at that in the finish there, too. There's like it was just like a series of hairpin turns that were just nasty. Um yeah, I I what did you you said you had something else you wanted to shout out? I got a couple of quick things in the street.
SPEAKER_00No, it's just I was gonna I was gonna jump into the fantasy update, but uh go ahead. What do you what else you got?
SPEAKER_01Have to shout out Lika Noyen um of Vismalisa Bike. This this girl's on the come up. She made a real strong show, and she almost beat she almost beat Demi and Marlon Roysa in Women's Do our store, and she played a pretty big role for Vismalisa Bike in in Flanders as well.
SPEAKER_00And MSR.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I wanted to shout shout her out in the women's race. Um or yeah, and I thought there was one other thing from the women that I wanted to mention. Uh well, I don't see it, but the the other thing I wanted to mention was this guy that was in the men's race. Um and I I loved it that Jez Cox, the uh commentator, was very familiar with this dude because he does a lot of Asian races. Did you catch this part?
SPEAKER_00I guess not, no.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh Mongolian guy. First time a Mongolian has ever run the tour uh race, the Tour of Flanders. He was for he's for that Burgos Burpele Biachi team. Um, Montgomery. Um his name is uh Jambaljan Cyan Bayar, Cyan Bayar. Um, and they interviewed him in the beginning. Like, I'm just like, heck yeah. And then he was and then he got himself into the breakaway and was all over the first like 90 minutes of this race. So uh big shout out to Jambaljan Cyan Bayar. Um and yeah, I think that's those that yeah, I just want to make get that in there. Uh let's turn now to our uh fantasy cycling league update. Uh, this could get ugly for you, I suspect. I have not seen the actual numbers. I will pull the spreadsheet up now. Bring it on.
SPEAKER_00So uh Matthew, you took one, two, and three in the so it before I even before I even go in, monuments weight pretty heavy in the points. All right. You get 30 for a win, 20 for a second, 10 for a third place win. Matt, you racked up 60 points in the men's race by taking not just first, not just second, but also third with pretty crazy. Your your three riders being Pagacar, Vanderpool, and Remco. Um, you also took points with Roysa this week um at Dwarzdorf Vanderlyn uh as she won, bringing your month total right now for April to 92 points. All right, and your overall total to 428. All right. I did take first in Duronda uh with Demi Vollery. Uh I did take second in Duars Dor for 39 points for April, but I have a measly 348 points on the total. Matt, you are currently leading by 80 points. And that's why I say I'm not maybe I'm not that disappointed in that Marlon Royce may not be garnering you any points for a couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that was that was a rough week. Well, um we we both had had losses going in uh or or during. Um, of course, you did not have Marianna Voss on your squad as she uh her father passed away, and so she's taking a little time off, it sounds like. Um I lost KLCP and uh Marlon Royce up, you know, halfway through uh. So that certainly did not help, but PFP came through for me and got got got 20.
SPEAKER_00You did have the remaining second place for her, too, yes.
SPEAKER_01The remaining 30 points on offer there. So um so I was surprised that my girl Lotta Kapeki did not do better. I I was really I don't know, after her MSR win and everything, I was just really expecting a little bit a little bit more for her.
SPEAKER_00I think she got I think she got caught in the wrong split and she was just with the with that she was with that Shabay group and I just don't think that that they were positioned well enough to be able to contend when when when Volering finally went. And again, this is the thing that I said earlier. Volering's win was very Pagacar-esque because they both attacked in the exact same spot, but they also attacked early on in the exact same spot. So it's a very identical race. You know, i it's funny that we say, like, you know, these races are kind of boring, but it's funny that they, you know, the women are using some of the same uh planning that the men are as far as when to attack.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, um outlook for next week uh on the women's side. I'm definitely looking better than you, I would say, with both uh Kapeki and defending champion PFP. I think your best hopes are gonna be uh, well, is Weebus going? I don't know. You have to look.
SPEAKER_00Um God, I hope so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that could be that could be a difference maker for sure. Um I'm gonna tell you right now. Lorena Vebis will be a Perry Roubaix Fong, as well as Amstel Gold.
SPEAKER_00So uh Yeah, so you've got her has been great, so I need some points. Come on, Lorena.
SPEAKER_01And then you've got Bradevald and uh Shabay. Will either of them be going? Let's find out. Uh Misha Bradevald will not be there.
SPEAKER_00Uh Will I have Mads Petterson for Alice Shabet will be there.
SPEAKER_01Shabay could win that race. She's a hard ass.
SPEAKER_00What about what about Petterson for uh Perry Roubaix?
SPEAKER_01Petterson will be at Perry Roubaix. Oh, there's uh the band one could hope. Yeah, so on the men's side, I mean I'm looking good with Pog and Vanderpool as always. Um but nothing outside of those two. Remco's not going.
SPEAKER_00Dude, Remco is not completely ruled out showing up for Perry Roubaix.
SPEAKER_01Well, I guess, yeah. This past week was any indicator. Uh on the other hand, you've got you've got Phillipson, you've got Petterson. Is Milan going?
SPEAKER_00I would think doubt it if Pedterson is.
SPEAKER_01Let's find out. He will be there. That's interesting. Milan and Pederson. I would think Milan will be there working for Mads Peterson, but who knows?
SPEAKER_00Tantalizing.
SPEAKER_01Going to be interesting. Yeah, all right. Well, I mean, I would say then if I had to predict it, I I reckon this time next week we will we will both be I I think I think we'll we'll both have around the same number of points coming out of the well for the week. I think I think I think this week, I think this my prediction is that this week ends up as a wash, and I'm still well ahead of you on GC. I'm thinking as well. Um yeah, all right. Well, uh of course, fantasy makes it fun. Uh so so so fun. Uh broomwagon time, Justin, what do you got for us?
SPEAKER_00Um, the first thing is something that I did have you watch earlier. The Jordi Mayus. I have two two things. One real broomwagon item, the other one is just uh I thought was interesting. Um Jordi Mayus and Christoph Laporte got into it after um Duar's door earlier this this week, and I thought it was quite interesting, uh, their little their little tete that they had with each other. Um Mayuse complaining that Laporte kind of stole his line, which I I don't really agree with. I think maybe he got a little argy bargy with the elbows. But but that's about it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. If you watch his bike, if if you watch if you watch Laporte's bike, it does not move over at all. He he leans his body a little bit, he throws the elbow out a little bit, or like you said, he does a little argy bargy, but the bike doesn't move. And Jordy do Jordy's direct complaint was, you know, you you went in my line. He literally says my line or your line or you left the line. Um, so you know, it's it can be forgiven. It's a a heated environment, you know, seconds after after a sprint happens.
SPEAKER_00I just love the era that we live in that like all of this stuff has a place that it shows up for us that we can see these little behind the scenes moments. I love that. Yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that writers do not like that. On to on to my real broomwagon item. Um let me let me set the stage. It's 1987. All right. Cutting cruise. Uh I just died in your arms tonight, all right. Probably playing on your radio somewhere. All right. And uh it's it is it's a holy week in Belgium, all right. And Duranda is going on, all right. And you see on the Koppenberg Jasper Skibby climbing, struggling up. The Skipster. Come on, Skibby. And you see what can only be described as is one of the absolute most horrific things to come out of the less camera era of cycling, which is Skibby is is climbing the Koppenberg and he is struggling, and so his bike kind of uh kind of goes sideways, and he's literally hit by a car in the train of vehicles. All right, coming up from his rear, he is hit by a car, he then goes down, and then what does the car do after hitting him? Runs over his bike. Like, what like I've I've now taken to going back and trying to find like neat little incidences that have come out of these mod these long, you know, long held races because there's some really fun stuff that pops out. I'd never heard of this, of the of the Jesper Skibby incident, and and I went back and watched it, and it's absolutely nuts. You're talking about a road that is not much wider than the BMW that hits him, okay? And this BMW takes absolutely no care about him, his condition, or what's going on in the race, and just hits him, hits it, rolls over his bike, and then keeps on going. And then the car behind him almost hits the guy that's helping him get back up off of the goddamn cobbles. Like, like what like what the hell was going on in this race? Like, how is it even possible that this happened?
SPEAKER_01There's a name for for this sort of of incident, and that name is attempted vehicular manslaughter. That man should have been thrown in jail. You uh left out two very, very crucial pieces of information here. Number one, uh, that car, I believe that car was the race director's car because there was a guy standing up out of the sunroof of the car. And when when it struck uh our boy Jippy, what's his name? Jester Skibby. Jesper Skibby. When it hit our boy Skibby, the skipster, uh he hits him and Skibby falls over. It's quite clear that he has fallen over because he puts his arm out, and I think he caught himself on the berm on the side of the road. That's how small he was.
SPEAKER_00Very tight, super tight. There's not even like there's barely spectators because it's so tight and there's nowhere to be.
SPEAKER_01Well, the spectators are up off of the berm for the most part. They're up off of the berm where they should be. Uh, that's gonna come into a factor in just a second. But so so now he's flopped over and he's literally at a 45 degree angle and he is stopped, right? So so it's quite clear you've you've hit this guy and knocked him over. And for the guy behind the car, the race director, no less, this is not a team car trying to keep up with the rider. It's a race director to look over and be like, oh yeah, we just knocked that guy over. Uh, let's carry on. And then boom, you run over his bike tire. I mean, it is unbelievable. That guy should have been arrested. I'm I'm not kidding. Um, and then before before the second car hits the spectator who's trying to help Jimpy, uh, the race director almost takes out another spectator as he's pulling off. There's somebody in orange that's down on the berm, like not on top of the berm, but down like right next to the road, like leaning against the berm. And boom, like I think that person was about to walk out into the road to go help the cyclist out, thinking, well, there's no way that there's no way to shoot.
SPEAKER_00That orange guy was a gendarme.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? Yeah, 100%. Well, I that was just absolutely wild. Thank you for for bringing that up. I'm I love, I I'm I'm down for discussing this old kind of stuff anytime you want. Anytime you want.
SPEAKER_00So, but anyway, just Jesper Skiby, we have not forgot about you. All right, we have not forgot about you.
SPEAKER_01He'll never be forgotten. I'd like I said, I had seen that, I'd seen that in the past, but uh I love taking a fresh look at it. What ended up happening with him in the race?
SPEAKER_00Do you know anything about the I I did not, I did not. It was definitely an officials car. It was a race officials car. That that is in my notes. All right.
SPEAKER_01Well, report back to us uh in the future on on the outcome of that race.
SPEAKER_00You know what? I will I will make sure that when I look these things up that I look and see what their final what they did in the finale.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. And and the and for the rest of their career while you're at it. Um, all right. Well, my broomwagon for today's show uh is getting a dedication. This one goes out to my mama, uh, our mother Beth, our number one fan, um, because I'm zagging from cycling and and doing a sports story here. Um This was crazy.
SPEAKER_00I did watch the video.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you did? Okay, yeah. So um I wish you hadn't because I had to set up for it, but no big deal. All right. So uh really amazing happening in the world of baseball uh this past week. Um not quite as amazing as the Shohei Otani game from last year. Was it a it was a game, right? Yeah, you didn't have the great where you struck out 10 guys and hit three home runs. Um, but pretty awesome game here. So the uh player in question is Joe Adell uh of the uh was it the the Anaheim Angels? Yeah, the Los Angeles Angels. Uh whilst playing the uh Seattle Mariners on April 4th, um this guy had an unbelievable night. So like early in the game, um, sun is still shining. Uh he's an outfield, uh the right fielder. Yeah, he's a right fielder. Uh goes back and gets a jumping, you know, catches a he's robs a home run uh with a jumping catch that had his glove, you know, going over the top of the wall. Uh awesome catch, you know, place goes nuts. I think it was a home crowd. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was uh at the angel stadium. Um pretty awesome. Five innings later, he duplicates the event. It's now dark out. Uh they're under the lights at almost the same exact spot, same, same exact height of a thing. Same, you know, it was almost exactly the same, but now he's done it twice in a row. And then like in the eighth or ninth inning, guy gets up and hits a massive uh high fly ball to right field, going way, way right. And you see my man take off, and he does the classic like diving for the ball right at the foul pole over the over the thing. You know, he hits the hits the hits the wall with his thighs, you know, right there where the wall's really low, flops into the crowd uh just as the ball nestles itself in his glove for the third one in a row. Of course, the the uh the uh Mariners challenged the call because it's hard to see if he still had still had it after he fell or whatever. But I believe if I if I'm correct on interpreting what the announcers were saying, once the if the ball is in your glove and then you hit and go over the wall, like it's a catch. Like, like it can't it you you you don't like if if if you fall over the wall and then your glove hits the seat and the ball pops out, it's it's still a catch. Like, you know, it's it's rule to catch the moment that you've you've crossed the threshold. Um so uh really awesome. Quick little video that I'll link to in the notes. It's five minutes long, uh, something like that. Um, but just a fun watch and you know, good on that guy. What a what an awesome night uh from our mom's favorite sport. Hello, Beth. That's gonna be all for this week. Join us next week for full coverage of the conclusion of Pro Cycling's Holy Week in the third monument race of the year for the women and the men, Perry Roubaix. Until then, for my brother Justin, I'm Matt Harper. Thanks for listening. We hope you'll join us again soon for another ride Beyond the Slipstream. Ale. Beyond the Slipstream is a part of the Harporama family of podcasts. Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Please like and subscribe, smash that button, leave a five star review, and most importantly, tell all your friends about us. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.
SPEAKER_02Alex
